Gary,

I am afraid that for what ever reason you get some joy out of playing us. You are not the kind of person that i want to associate myself with or do business with. The foul mouth hatred that you are spewing all of a sudden is totally uncalled for. It is not your opinions that I have a problem with it is YOU.

Do your distributors know the intense anti Christian views you hold. I wonder what would happen if you gave these types of opinions regarding Jews or Moslems on a public forum.

The common belief these days is you can basically do or say anyhting against Christians and they slink away and dare not object.

How long would you last with your New York accounts if you said these terrible things about other religious groups?

You have stooped a little too low for me Gary.  See ya

I'm not playing you. I am coming from a caring place. I could even say that you are being played by your pastors, etc. Anyway, since you said, "see ya" - you won't probably be able to see this because I've blocked you.

I agree that the con artists who sucker in people to "tithe" are horrible horrible people. I've met some slimy business people who do similar things and say "it's business" but that doesn't cause me to go around bashing on business.

Why is it that you don't believe anything that these so called pastors say OTHER THAN that they are Christians? Just b/c they say they are doesn't mean that they are so it's weird that you throw everything they say out but accept that they are telling the truth about that.

Gary,

I consider myself a Christian and yet I agree with much of your assessment concerning how churches, ministers and politicians take advantage of people that are far too trusting. But even if all Christians were super savvy, I sense your disdain is more centered in opposition to their views on social norms and their gullibility is just an easy target. Furthermore, it comes across as gloating over their misfortune at being deceived by those who pretend Christian values.

If I were to say those close to you are only after your wealth, you could not help but be hurt by that on some level, because it's an attack on your beliefs and faith. Likewise, those who value what they believe and trust are similarly hurt by your abrupt and barbed comments.

I've done similar things where I offend people and always come to regret it. I believe when we feel those regrets, it's because the spirit of Christ withdraws from us and it feels really bad. I just think if we have a difference of opinion, then we need to find some method to express those differences without becoming personally offensive. We need to ask for help to temper our comments, where they will help people and offer them hope. Do unto others, you know, that Christian thing.

Hytek


BTW, what do you think about the Queen and the Canadian Parliament? I think it's a real insight to how the world really works.

As always bro - it's your blog. But your understanding of Christianity is extremely elementary - almost laughable. The work done by the body of Christ for the unjust and unfortunate has for centuries shaped the moral compass for nations and kingdoms. It's true that many a man has damaged that work but the point is the ultimate example - Christ is who we Christians look to...not man. You won't get many arguments from me about prosperity preachers because it is NOT scriptural. But your in over your head son in your stark generalizations about the faith. I don't know you so I am basing this (unfairly) on your traffic driven posts, but you and Frank and others claim this elitist sort of "no one is more enlightened than me" attitude and brush off different view points as ignorant dolts. Smarter and more successful people than you have come to the cross and have been humbled.

Having "friends" on Facebook and in 30 cities that you have dinner with while hopscotching around the world doesn't make you salt of the earth who has a handle on the real work being done by the body of Christ in the name of Christ. 

You have been called nuts, have you not, about your absolute predictions of the unavoidable collapse of the USA, yet you still develop and sell 101 ways to put a plastic thingy on your flash and HOW TO GET RICH DVD's on your website to your American customer base (which I'm sure is your largest market) even though we are doomed to famine and poverty...right! You'll still take their money right - even though if you were them you might be spending these last days preparing for Canada's North American dominance.

Still love ya bud - hey I'm ordering my 100th Cornerstone album this week ;)

you all might want to read "God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens. Unless, of course, you are not allowed to think for yourselves. A very eye opening and revealing book for those with an open mind.

I’m a 40 year old church brat. I grew up in a Pentecostal Denomination. I have sat under pastors, I have worked for pastors, I am a pastor’s son, and I have been a pastor. I have been burnt by pastors, have been stolen from by pastors, I seen pastor sleep around, I’ve been hurt by members, I’ve been threatened by members. There is a lot of bad Christians out there, Me included.

Are your friends bad Christians? Is DJ a bad Christian?

Is there even a thing as a bad Christian? Or are we all just humans trying to just be? We are all bad or wicked sometimes, that’s why the message of Jesus is so powerful, to me. We all need forgiveness. I need it on a daily bases.

Take it from PuppetJi. It has the answers.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=YlbDJCqPH2U&feature=related

Well normally I just like to sit back and read these things for a good laugh, but on this point, I'll bite....

Without trying to go into a huge post on this topic about Christianity, consider this:

How do we know that the War of 1812 really happened? There are no actual photographs of the event. You can't go on YouTube and click on a video to see the battle being fought, but we all know that it happened because we learned about it in the history books in school. So what makes it true? Easy, eye witness accounts of the actual events. Several people fought in the war, saw what happened and then wrote it down. The same way you can be convicted in a court of law if someone "saw" you do something illegal. Eye witness accounts.

So that brings me to the part of Christianity and Jesus. If Jesus would have never "risen from the dead" like you said earlier, all of Christianity would be a lie. Just some nice story about a good guy blah, blah, blah, but it's not. He did "rise from the dead". How could I know this? Eye witness testimony of actual events. Now many of Jesus' disciples who saw him after he was buried and then walked the earth were killed and stoned to death from the government at the time. Now I don't know about you, but I don't know to many folks who would die just for a lie. If I were lying about seeing Jesus walking around after he had been buried, and then started getting hit in the head by a bunch of rocks, I'd change my tune really quick. The disciples didn't change their story though, they died knowing what they saw and experienced. So for me personally, that's one of the many reasons that I believe in Jesus. Eye witness accounts of what really happened. The whole reason we know anything about history or the past is because someone saw it, lived it, and then wrote it down. Just another point to consider............

I think it takes a lot of courage to speak up for what you beleave when its unpopular..I admire you Gary for keeping it real...

@RKPhoto1 - 

Eyewitness accounts have put innocent people in jail. They can't be relied on totally, especially when a witness tells another who tells another, etc. There are studies about how the mind sees and hears what it wants to see and hear. It's called the reticular process:

Normally, our reticular system “screens out” the mass of information that is all around us. There is simply too much information for us to pay attention to. Anything that is not important at the moment, is “tuned-out.” This could explain why you will always see, hear, and read only things that nourish what you already believe and will not allow anything that could change your mind, now matter how true or factual it could be.

A recent study (Wells, et al, 1998) examined the first 40 cases where DNA exonerated wrongfully convicted people. In 90% of the cases, mistaken eyewitness identification played a major role. In one case, 5 separate witnesses identified the defendant.
http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/mistakenid.html

Eyewitness identification evidence is the leading cause of wrongful conviction in the United States. Of the more than 200 people exonerated by way of DNA evidence in the US, over 75% were wrongfully convicted on the basis of erroneous eyewitness identification evidence. ....including a long history of eyewitness errors traceable back to Biblical times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_identification

Your use of the phrase:
"If Jesus would have never risen from the dead, all of Christianity would be lie."
In linguistics, this is an example of a pre-supposition: Jesus has risen from the dead (First, you have to believe that there was a man called Jesus, and then believe, also, that he was risen from the dead.)
Still in linguistics, by a process called complex equivalence: (because there is a man called Jesus, and that he has risen from the dead, then...) all of Christianity must be true.

The word "All" (a universal quantifier, like saying "salespeople are all the same), in your phrase "...all of Christianity would be a lie." One can question "all", because there are hundreds of different Christian interpretations, and even sects, and they don't necessarily believe in exactly the same things. This leaves the door open to some being a "lie" or at least not preaching the whole truth. So, it can't be "all", one way or the other. Kapish?

Stoning was not a Christian exclusive, at the time. Prostitutes were stoned, robbers, adulterers, and other non-Christian people were stoned. Some disciples may have been stoned for other reasons (if they were stoned), not necessarily because they peddled the Jesus story - true or not. Stoning is still practiced today, and those who are stoned are not Christians. Some get stoned because a lock of hair slipped from their veil.

There are many folks who die from a lie, even today. Kamikazes have died from lies. Soldiers have died from lies during various wars in the last 50 years and before. Some die from lies, as we exchange there posts. Fundamentalist Muslims, with bombs attached around their waists die from lies. Does that make them Christians? If anything, the world is governed by lies: economic, social, health, religion, etc.

The disciples did not change their story. They did not change it, and it does not mean that it was true. Remember, though, that their stories, those who made it in the Bible, did not quite match on all accounts. The basic idea is there, but each interpreted it the way they saw it (reticular process). Those disciples who also wrote their own books or took notes, the ones that got voted out of the Bible, because their accounts did not quite match those of others. So as not to confuse the faithful, a bunch of well-meaning guys simply censored them out of the Bible, and...also chose which translation and interpretation of translated words they would choose. As you know, the Bible was not originally written in the King's english. This is well-documented, if you care to do just a little research.

Once the dust settles down in Irak and Afghanistan, which account of what really happened will you read? Which version of history will you believe? There are many points of views out there. Which will you believe? We've never had so much of a instantaneous communication network (tv, radio, satellite radio, cell phones, text messaging, e-mail), yet we get different news and points of views. We can check and cross-check information, and it's sometimes hard to tell who is telling the truth or bullshitting us on a daily basis. Now, go back 2000 years with scraps of paper, mouth to ear exchanges, hearsay, wife's tales, superstitions, politics, power, money, prestige, fear, wanting to believe in something, conflicting religions vying for followers and contributions, ego. You're saying that they had a a reliable reporting system?

Faith is not having to prove anything. Live your faith the way you want. Whether you're right or wrong is meaningless, except for you...:)

"The work done by the body of Christ for the unjust and unfortunate has for centuries shaped the moral compass for nations and kingdoms."

That's a riot.

The hatred and violence done in the name of paternal deities (including christ) far outweighs any notion you have a benevolent army of do-gooders.

i really am kinda shocked. this is..........it's.....................incredible.

i don't think i ever want to attack something so vehemently that people i know (or may not know) really believe. they believe what they do the same i believe what i do. we both believe these things for our own reasons and believe the other person would be better off if they believed like us - but wow, this is......i'm just really surprised. it's so.................it's so EXACTLY what bothers people who aren't christians about the typical "bible thumper" - just reversed.

i honestly wouldn't want someone to say to me what's been said here, especially this way - so i wouldn't ever say it to them, especially this way. aren't there more tactful ways to do this? i just don't get it.

i'm not offended by much anymore - and i'm not offended by this. however, i really am sad. i think it's totally lame to go after something (anything) that someone really holds dear to them like this with little to no regard for their perspective or position. even if it really is/were coming from a "caring place"...it sure as heck doesn't sound like it.

hmmm. man. i just....i just don't get it.

Wow... I'm kind of upset myself now. Not because of anyone one thing, but because the tone in these oft had discussions has changed dramatically. Too many people talking AT each other. That whole 'with' left the building a while ago. I find no reason, no bone in my body to argue FOR Christ. I find that those that argue are those that cling to a loose interpretation of what they believe. They filled their head with these bricks and mortar ideas to build their idea of God and their own place on this earth.. you start questioning a brick, or tearing them down, they go a little crazy. Now they have to rethink the order. Now they have to wonder if it's even a brick at all.

My point to other Christians is, stop. Just stop. This is not the 'good fight'. And I'm not talking to BS of 'Hey guys let's quit throwing our pearls before these swine'. That's BULLSHIT.I saw that a few posts and comments ago, but I was so enraged by that 'christian'. To whom does it matter that you back you faith up with 'facts'. You? No. Well it shouldn't..... that's another post all together. Does it matter to them? Nope - your set of facts, historicity, and vocabulary differ greatly. It's all a big grey ball of mess. So what's the point? Please, another Christian on here, tell me the point of all of this? And I will tell you how you're wrong..

@fjblau - 

This is the one that really got me though. Frank I think you oversimplified, went all hyperbolic on us, and just ended up looking like a huge (but huggable) douchebag ;)

I was going to sit here and type the names of friends I have out 'doing good', but then realized it would probably be a waste of time. I believe if this truly how you view the work of 'the Church', then we've done a bad job somewhere.

The Church is constantly at work, Frank, it really is. Fuck it.. Here's my list ;)

3 friends work at Hospitals of Hope - HoH finds medical professionals who will give up their time to go somewhere and practice medicine in a place that desperately needs it. THey also traipse around the country looking for medical equipment, medicines, anything they can get their hands on as donations. They ship these things (lots of stuff, I've packed crates with dental chairs, to flats of aspirin) in huge shipping containers to the next country they are going into - right now it's liberia. Once in liberia they will rebuild the only existing hospital (JFK Memorial wierdly), do clinics all around the country, etc. etc. etc. As far as I know, no 'spiritual' strings attached. No preaching. Just helping. Helping like Christ would, and COMMANDED his followers to do. Help, Love, Regardless. Without hope of reciprocation physically or spiritually. It's almost secular were it not a bunch of Christian guys thinking it was their duty.

Another family does simalar stuff in afghanistan. Their two teenage son's hate it, but the mom's a nurse and the dad is some wierd logistics guy who is helping farmers over there dry their fruits, and export them. Obviously no word about Christ there, or they'd be killed.

I have more, but maybe I'll stop. The point is Frank, PLEASE PLEASE understand that there ARE Christians and Churches who live out their faith by trying to b Christ-Life. Selfless, sacrificial, and without hope of reciprocation. Love for the sake of Love. Good for the sake of Good.

I'm really saddened by all of this. I don't feel offended, I just am heartbroken that all of this that has been going on back and forth in the comments lately is what people think of Christians. Even worse, it's our own damn fault.

Whoops meant to say:

"there ARE Christians and Churches who live out their faith by trying to be Christ-LIKE. Selfless, sacrificial, and...."

weird. Shot shot and I posted at almost the exact time time. It's a sign from the FSM. cheese be with him.

Gary - I don't work on my own car anymore, it's too complicated under the hood. Religion still has room under the hood. Many of the questions you have and especially the anger at fraudulent people within the faith are legitimate. You will never find the answers this way. Have you talked to a professor of religion? You really are tearing yourself up with these questions, we all have these unanswered questions. You've got a well-tuned understanding of many things, that's why you've been so successful. Religion is a response to where did we come from and where are we going, and why all the suffering and what's this all about anyway? Believe me, I've seen some shady characters in religion, and I've met some legitimate saintly people as well. But it's more than that. My best friend and roommate in college was an atheist, yet I would put his ethics on the same level as the most honest people I know today. No easy answers Gary. Welcome to the club! - Ed

I took a great class at UCSB called the history of religion. It was one of the most eye-opening classes I had ever taken and was pretty revealing. I really loved it.

Dixie - holy smokes what a story! I do believe it. I've heard voices too. I do believe in God. My issue is with people who claim to know about it more than the flock, and guide them in wrong decisions. While I do not believe in Jesus, I do believe in God.

How can one not? Look at the concept of love. If we were pipe fittings, we wouldn't have the capacity for love, or a spirit that yearns. God exists, I believe.

@DixieDobbins - 

You hear stories like this and people say God is so great. If so, why did the other lady get killed? Don't give me the BS about it was her time to go either. And if God protected you even though at the time you weren't "living right", why should we struggle to "live right" and abide by all the religous rules and regulations if God is just going to pick and choose whom he wishes to protect anyway?

Let me guess; some things aren't for our understanding. That God has a reason, time and purpose for everything. Hogwash. I don't buy into all that.

@garyfong1 - 

That's odd. I've always believed more in Jesus than I have in a God. Jesus was a person that walked around and people could see and touch and hear. God is an imaginative creature, or supernatural "being" that nobody has seen. Interesting thoughts.

Yes, I know what you mean. Some of the Evangalists are hillarious. Some are out for money. Some really care. I live in the South and there are a lot of them.   But the absense of religion is a dangerous thing. It allows the sociopaths of this world to do ANTYHING at all. This is a subject that is so complex that no one can figure it out. Its like trying to figure out SPACE. I just try to make my relgiion a somewhat private thing. You are right, we do have a spirit that yearns. I guess we will all find out someday. I dont go to church for the people. I go for him.

In your book, Snaps, when you were writing about the WIG SHOP, that was so scary what happened to Bruce and to your other neighbors. Wouldnt it have been better if those people had been raised in church and believed in hell? Have you seen the movie GHOST? I love it at the end when the dark smoke comes and gets the bad guy. Whether its real or not, it is good that some of us are GOD FEARING.  I know you are a free thinker and extremely intelligent, and so you question every thing. Its your nature. Just talk to Joe about it. I had the pleasure of meeting Joe when he was here in Houston this May and hes got that peace about it. I have that peace now. My parents dont, and some of my friends dont. I dont go to church often. But I do pray, and I do believe, and I do educate myself. There is a tug of war between GOOD and EVIL. I choose to be on the GOOD SIDE. Not the neutral.  But thats just me. I wish you well with your quest of this subject. Its a personal journey for everyone to take their own way.

Thanks for clarifying your post. PS I cant WAIT FOR YOU TO BECOME A DADDY. I know its exactly what you need and it will be the best thing you can imagine. Hugs, Dixie

I said SHE BARELY SURVIVED> She is alive and well in Lubbock TEXAS. Neither of us got killed. But we got changed.  We  realized what is important and got rid of the extranous stuff.  Why does a plane go down and some survive and some dont? We are NOT GOD.

Do you think an Ant understands us? No because we are more complex than an ant. God is so Big that we cannot fathom him. We are ants compared to him. The same reason a DOG cannot drive a car, or fly a plane.