@fjblau - 

When did I claim to be the arbitrator of what Jesus meant, but what He said was very easy to understand, why don't you capitalize Jesus' name.

Hmmm...so, you are saying that evolutionists don't kill. Hitler killed about 12 million because of his fervor in evolution, and of his desire to purify the master race. The Columbine school killings were by two boys that believed in natural selection, and they purposely singled out and killed Christians. Stalin an atheist killed tens of millions.

@TimRayPhoto - 

Oh good grief.

Crusades anyone?

Next time try and at least quote me correctly. I have never even HINTED that people that believe in evolution don't kill people. Please.

And um, nice try with Columbine, but you're wrong there too.

"The biggest myths about the tragedy have to do with the question of who Harris and Klebold were really targeting in their rampage. Jocks, African-Americans and Christians have been widely described as their chief targets. Not a scrap of evidence supports that conclusion. In addition to voluminous evidence from the scene, Harris left behind a wealth of detailed plans and commentary making their targets plain."

(http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/23/columbine/print.html)

But I doubt facts sway you much.

ps:

Hitler was born and baptized as a Roman Catholic. He served mass as a young boy and actually contemplated becoming an abbot. He never publicly repudiated his Catholicism, nor did he ever cease paying his dues. [1] He wrote in his Mein Kampf (1924) (My Struggle) that "faith is the sole foundation of a moral attitude" and that an attack against religion "strongly resembles the struggle against the general legal foundations of the state." [2] Although Hitler did persecute some Protestant churches and the Catholic Church later on [3] he never ceased being a theist. As late as 1938, he can be heard making this statement in a speech: "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work." [4] [a]

---

For what it's worth.

pps:

"Article 24 of Hitler's Nazi party programs calls for "Positive Christianity". Among the 25 points of the core values of this new Christianity, as explained by German philosopher Ernst Bergmann in 1934, is point number six which states: "The German religion is a religion of the people. It has nothing in common with free thoughts, atheist propaganda, and the breakdown of current religions." [6]"

@fjblau - 

Frank, why don't you read what Jesus said for you self, and read it with an open mind:):):)

I had nothing to do with the crusades, I really doubt that true Christians did. Just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean they are one, the Bible clearly tells that true Christians bear spiritual fruit.

Galations 5:22-23

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

"just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean they are one, the Bible clearly tells that true Christians bear spiritual fruit."

And again, the ones that committed the crusades were just as fervent as YOU are about their biblical inspiration and correctness (as was Hitler and his "spiritual fruit"). So really, its just your word against theirs. And the alleged wisdom of historical correctness, of course.

That is the crux of it.

@fjblau - You sure sound like a Nazi lover to me right now, quoting all that Hilter stuff. Your blog has nothing submitted about you on it and you hide all information from others. 

When the skys open up one day and you see JESUS coming  in the clouds, you still wont beleive. You are decieved by Satan himself. Your whole view of life in general is negative and you think you know it all. You are the one who is Judging everyone on here, you are the one who is making one sided statements about GOD. You don't even know who GOD is and yet you pass judgement on others who have studied the scripture and beleive in the almighty.

One day YOU will stand in judgement before his mighty thrown and then you will know the truth, and then it will be too late for you. I feel sorry for you, you are walking a destructive path and YOU choose not to open your eyes and your heart to the truth.

oh please. Nazi lover? Piss off.

You don't sound like someone that really knows how to even read a blog, much less understand (or spell) the big words.

It's your hell, YOU burn in it.

But hey, false accusations have been the stock and trade of your ilk for centuries.

I'm sure christ is very proud of you for that one.

Tim, he can't read with an open mind because it is already blinded to the things of the Spirit. Let's just pray he has not been cut off and turned over to a reprobate mind..

muckity blah blah... continue your circle jerk, by all means.

And you're right about one thing... I got no freaking idea what you are talking about.

We've already determined here that I am Hellbound Frank, so your reprobate admonitions are redundant.

I'm sure your christ will forgive you for being such judgmental revisionists. Enjoy the poofy clouds and angel wings.

@fjblau - You are so lost and decieved. I used to be the same way.

The one thing I will say for you is that you sound educated. If you know so much and read so much about all the other garbage there is how about reading the Bible? Oh, and if Xanga had spell check my words would have not been mispelled. I'm not so good on the keyboard.

It amazes me how many really smart people we have in this world who just think they know it all and think the rest of us are idiots for one reason or another. I'm not highly educated, I'm just a regular 52 year old guy who found out why I'm here and for what reason. I asked friends who I didn't know who were "Born Again"  and got an answer 24 years ago that changed my life. I hope before your life ends you find the peace and truth that I did, it really WILL change your life.

Now does that sound like a bunch of  "muckity blah blah..." as you stated above? I'm just telling you how I feel, thats all.

@fjblau - 

Frank having religious fervor does not make you a Christian, you see that is where you have no real understanding of what a true Christian is. Being a Christian means that you confess Jesus as your Lord and follow Him and His teachings. The ones guilty of the crusades obviously never followed His teaching, or they would have committed such things. The crusades were really a political war brought against the enemies of the pope.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade

Did you even read what spiritual fruit Christians are have? Let me give you an example; someone can say all they want that you have a peach tree, but if it is bearing apples it is not really a peach tree is it? It's the same with Christians, you will know true Christians by the fruit they bear.

I'm on vacation, so I won't get in on this one fully as I usually do, because when it comes to faith or beliefs, it's very hard to change them. The biggest challenge is that in each generation, the same things are repeated over and over again, and extrapolated to fit the lifetime of the believers, who truly believe that whatever has been prophesied will occur in their own lifetime.

It takes quite an effort and open mind to search wide and deep in other religions to see how Christianity came into being. Most Christians (and other religions, also) will not search beyond what the Bible and preachers will tell them. For them, it's enough.

So be it. Each to his/her faith. No matter what faith, we'll all end up finding our way back to origin, whatever that is, and no matter what the Christians say about Jesus having the ONLY way back to God (whatever that means in words).

If there was a true or complete religion or faith, it would have the means to convince EVERYONE to follow A path. As it stands, most religions, rather than bringing people together, form enclaves where some claim that theirs is better than the others. As long as that mentality stands, we will have separation.

As far as Jesus appearing on a cloud, I'm just wondering if he is going to land in America, Canada, South America, Europe, etc. first. He would not want to offend anybody were he to choose on country first over another. If I were to believe on the return of Jesus, I would endorse more the Hindu interpretation of Jesus's second coming as a very personal event in the spiritual evolution of a person, where Jesus does appear in the mind of the faithful when that person crosses the Christ portal, or what the Hindus and some other religions call the Third Eye, situated between the eyebrows. The "cloud" is like a very bright light that pervades in the mind from deep meditation (total silence), and indeed some people may see Jesus inviting them to cross over into awareness. A very deep and personal experience, not a physical world event as many believe. That would also account for rapture. Not the movie interpretation where all the "righteous" disappear in thin air, but rather the crossing over into awareness that all creation is linked.

Too many words have been used to make "God" talk. The Bible, although it may be a very good spiritual book, may also be the biggest scam in human existence, not because of what is written in it, but how what is written in it has been interpreted, and made men go mad with wars, greed, power, and wealth. The downfall of the Bible is human interpretation through the many translations and political goals of men who wanted to control the masses. The same can be said of other spiritual books. The original intention and meaning has been corrupted and has divided people.

Nuff said. Each to his/her own faith. Whatever argument brought forward is only opinion, not fact. Faith is not fact, but belief in the unknown. How can anyone argue with that?...:)

Why do you presume I haven't read the bible?

I was raised catholic, catholic schools, christian parents, a priest for an uncle and a brother who is a deacon.... go ahead, ask me anything... :)

On the flip side... have you read Richard Dawkins? Christopher Hitchens? If all it takes is reading, why stop at the stuff you agree with already?

I have found plenty of peace... but precious little of it (though pieces!) came from the teachings of the bible.

"The ones guilty of the crusades obviously never followed His teaching, or they would have committed such things. "

And again, they were no less fervent than you in their belief that they were doing "god's will"... as many fanatics do. The fact that you can show them as wrong in a historical context only demonstrates the folly of superstition.

"Faith is not fact, but belief in the unknown. How can anyone argue with that?...:)"

Because people that believe in the supernatural argue it as fact. If they, like you seem to, would just have a quiet acceptance of their personal spiritual beliefs and not feel the need to impose them on others, or condemn, judge and persecute people that don't share their PERSONAL beliefs, we would live in a much better world.

But as long as they continue to do so, it will spark (at least my) proclivities for vocal dissent.

@fjblau - 

So, why don't you have quiet acceptance of Christians personal spiritual beliefs here? You have been anything but quiet about mine and others beliefs here. How would life in the world be better if Christians kept quiet and to themselves? Are you saying that Christians are the real problem with the world?

I am a witness to God's existence from my being raised from the dead, and the many miracles that I have witnessed in the lives of my family and friend, to experiencing the presence of His Holy Spirit in my life, so I can speak from experience that I know that I know that He IS. It may not be a fact to you, but I can tell you that God is just as real to me as anyone I know here on earth.

I'm sorry that you never have had to opportunity to know God like I and others have.

Yes. I am saying that christianity has a lot to do with what is wrong with the world. But only in the sense that christianity is just another paternalistic, supernatural, anti-scientific belief system. Along with islam and all the other major religions.

I am happy to talk about what I believe.. but you're going to have to be a little more specific. What do I believe about what?

"Ethic of Reciprocity"

Google it

And if I go to hell for living that way, so be it. =)

"a sadist is just a masochist who follows the golden rule"

love it.... thanks for the link!

Hellbound Frank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyWEBbFwU1o&feature=related