Unfortunately, war is sometimes necessary.
We needed to defeat Germany, and we needed to defeat Japan.

We lost hundreds of thousands of soldiers and even more innocent civilians died, but what was our choice?

If we hadn't, much of Europe would have been taken by Hitler. Can you imagine concentration camps in London or Ireland or hundreds of other places?

I'm always curious what the answer is if we chose never to fight for anything?

Non-war people, what is the answer? What is the ultimate conclusion if we will never ever ever ever ever ever fight for anything?

Like the old saying "United we stand and divided we fall." If we as a country can't unite behind the effort of winning this war, then we are certain to lose. Now, think about consequences of losing.

"Thank you Bob, And now back to Gary for some Foreclosure reports!"

:)

Dan, good comeback:) Now, what will Gary's comeback be? Inquiring minds want to know:):):)

Gary is not getting enough attention so he does some "W" bashing.

Bluesky. I did not mention Hitler. However, how long did it take before the US government reacted to Hitler's invasion of so many countries and the decimation of Jews? In those days, the proof was obvious. Did not need an extensive CIA analysis to find out what was happening. However, we moved into Irak on unconfirmed suppositions faster than in WWII. We also, reacted quite fast when Saudi oil fields were threatened by Saddham. If any war was legitimate, WWII was the one. Kuwait? I'll concede. I'm not sure if Saddham had not been set-up on that one, since that at one point he was a friendly with the US. What better excuse to legitimate having military bases in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. However, we were the only ones in history (so far) to nuke innocent city populations in retribution for having bombed our naval installations. THAT was a direct threat. Did we need to nuke innocent populations to win that war? Compare casualties in Hiroshima (135,000) and Nagasaki (64,000) and Pearl Harbor (Navy 2,008, Marines 109) and 779 wounded (Navy 710, Marines 69). The Army (as of midnight, 10 December) lost 228 killed or died of wounds, 113 seriously wounded and 346 slightly wounded. In addition, at least 57 civilians were killed and nearly as many seriously injured. Mostly service men against innocent populations in Japan. We also destroyed entire cities in Germany - civilian casualties. Why should we be surprised that the same is done unto us for two buildings after doing it to others tenfold for years?

with the World Trade Center (2,998)? What about officially un-counted casualties in Irak and Afghanistan? I know that they are not linked, however, why would "their" casualties - those or our alledged ennemies, but mostly innocent civilians - be less valuable as a human life?

How long have we insulted the muslim community with our military presence in their holiest of holy land - Saudi Arabia where their Mecca is situated? How would you get rid of an invader if you did not have the military power of your ennemy? What defines a terrorist? Someone who creates terror by whatever means at their disposal? How terrifying can nuking a nation be? How terrifying can bombs be when being dropped over your head? Why do improvised road side bombs exist? Because we are on their roads. Why do young boys blow themselves up in a public market (over there, not here, btw). Because they can't openly fight fairly with conventional way agasint our military might. And some of those suicide bombs are not necessarily targeted against us, but against their own internal factions.

In answer to theojohns and TimRayPhoto - we cannot prevent the Talibans from eventually taking back Afghanistan. We can't stay there forever. They have patience and financial resources, from other muslim countries. We must not confuse Al Qaeda, a known terrorist group with the different tribes in Aghanistan who control parts of the country, as well as different muslim groups.

In Irak, there is a power struggle between Shiites backed by a powerful Iran and Sunis - an internal feud that has lasted for centuries. We can't stay there forever, either. In the meantime, our soliers die.

Yes, the US population should support our soldiers, as well as the Canadian population. However, should we back up just anything that is politically (or financially) motivated? Especially when we were led to do so by lies? Can our governments make errors? In the past, it did. What is our alledged democracy? By the people for the people. What people are we talking about? The war industry? The oil industry? Has that changed pump prices in our favor? What real gain have we had with those wars? Has any of that helped our economy? How long must we keep financing errors?

Think about consequences of losing? Have we not lost already, and in complete denial of it? What about cutting our losses and concentrating on our economy and well-being at home?

"Anyone who bashes bush is as trite and bandwagon-happy as a teenage girl who plays Britney Spears on the way to her prom."

That is the best non-sequitir I have ever read.

The GOP is going to lose BIG in november because of that simplistic, slogan-driven, flag-waving mentality.

And not a moment too soon.

"Non-war people, what is the answer? What is the ultimate conclusion if we will never ever ever ever ever ever fight for anything?"

I don't recall anyone, least of all Gary, say we should never fight for something.

THIS war however, was marketed by lies and executed with habitual failures of both military, moral and economic judgment.

It is time for change.

"I wonder if all the people that so casually and dogmatically criticize President Bush really believe that he is callous, and that he is simply a warmongering, selfish bureaucrat, carrying out the dictates of some government conspiracy to gain more wealth and take over the world."

Um, count me as one.

Fellow conservatives...how about we resist the temptation to perpetuate this silly thread. 

Fjblau...it's all yours, buddy.  Go nuts. 

Dan, I agree.

Everyone is missing the big picture here!!

He should of used a 4 iron not his driver!

Just a few of the laws broken by this administration:

Deception of Congress and the American Public
Committing a Fraud Against the United States (18 U.S.C. § 371)
Making False Statements Against the United States (18 U.S.C. § 1001)
War Powers Resolution (Public Law 93-148)
Misuse of Government Funds (31 U.S.C. § 1301)
Improper Detention, Torture, and Other Inhumane Treatment
Anti-Torture Statute (18 U.S.C. § 2340-40A)
The War Crimes Act (18 U.S.C. § 2441)
The Geneva Conventions and Hague Convention: International Laws Governing the Treatment of Detainees
United Nations Convention Against Torture, and Cruel, Inhuman and Degrading Treatment: International Laws Governing the Treatment of Detainees
Command Responsibility (for known illegal acts of subordinates in the military)
Detainment of Material Witnesses (18 U.S.C. § 3144)
Retaliating against Witnesses and Other Individuals
Obstruction Congress (18 U.S.C. § 1505)
Whistleblower Protection (5 U.S.C. § 2302)
The Lloyd-LaFollette Act, or "anti-gag rule" (5 U.S.C. § 7211)
Retaliating against Witnesses (18 U.S.C. § 1513)
Leaking and other Misuse of Intelligence and other Government Information
Revealing Classified Information in Contravention of Federal Regulations (Executive Order 12958/Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement)
Statutory Prohibitions on Leaking Information (18 U.S.C. § 641, etc.)
Laws Governing Electronic Surveillance
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (50 U.S.C. § 1801, et seq.)
National Security Act of 1947 (50 U.S.C. chapter 15)
Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. § 222)
Stored Communications Act of 1986 (18 U.S.C. § 2702)
Pen Registers or Trap and Trace Devices (18 U.S.C. § 3121)
Laws and Guidelines Prohibiting Conflicts of Interest (28 U.S.C. § 528, etc.)

How about a sale Gary?

Well, I couldn't disagree with you more. I have friends over there and they always tell me a different story than what is being told in the news. A few months ago I had lunch who served in DC. Turns out there have been many attempts already that have and cannot be reported. Wish I could have been able to squeeze some cool news out but then we wouldn't be safer and that person would be out of a job.

Anyway back to sales Gary...how about some new sale on something...something to spend our stimulus money on; )

Just some of the laws my President and his administration chose to break and or ignore:

Deception of Congress and the American Public
Committing a Fraud Against the United States (18 U.S.C. § 371)
Making False Statements Against the United States (18 U.S.C. § 1001)
War Powers Resolution (Public Law 93-148)
Misuse of Government Funds (31 U.S.C. § 1301)
Improper Detention, Torture, and Other Inhumane Treatment
Anti-Torture Statute (18 U.S.C. § 2340-40A)
The War Crimes Act (18 U.S.C. § 2441)
The Geneva Conventions and Hague Convention: International Laws Governing the Treatment of Detainees
United Nations Convention Against Torture, and Cruel, Inhuman and Degrading Treatment: International Laws Governing the Treatment of Detainees
Command Responsibility (for known illegal acts of subordinates in the military)
Detainment of Material Witnesses (18 U.S.C. § 3144)
Retaliating against Witnesses and Other Individuals
Obstruction Congress (18 U.S.C. § 1505)
Whistleblower Protection (5 U.S.C. § 2302)
The Lloyd-LaFollette Act, or "anti-gag rule" (5 U.S.C. § 7211)
Retaliating against Witnesses (18 U.S.C. § 1513)
Leaking and other Misuse of Intelligence and other Government Information
Revealing Classified Information in Contravention of Federal Regulations (Executive Order 12958/Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement)
Statutory Prohibitions on Leaking Information (18 U.S.C. § 641, etc.)
Laws Governing Electronic Surveillance
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (50 U.S.C. § 1801, et seq.)
National Security Act of 1947 (50 U.S.C. chapter 15)
Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. § 222)
Stored Communications Act of 1986 (18 U.S.C. § 2702)
Pen Registers or Trap and Trace Devices (18 U.S.C. § 3121)
Laws and Guidelines Prohibiting Conflicts of Interest (28 U.S.C. § 528, etc.)

What do I teach my two and seven year old girls?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......

"it's all yours buddy. go nuts."

hahahahaha...man that was funny. my sentiments exactly.

let's start a new game where we all comment until frank (fjblau) makes one...then we all stop. i would love that. and so would frank - he could have the last word every time! lol.

WOW!

ONCE I SEE THE LIL BALD HEAD PROFILE PICTURE OF fjblau
I KNOW THE FUN IS ABOUT TO START!

"What do I teach my two and seven year old girls?"

Teach them to wash their hands, the A.B.C's,
not to take candy from strangers, and that "Yes honey, that man is a muppet in a suit"

As if you could actually resist the urge to engage...

But if you want to always give me the last word... I'll take it.

You're wrong! Bush sucks! Go Obama! Hooray for collectivism!

WOOOO! I win.

Hellbound Liberal Frank and his Bald Head (which was originally shaved in solidarity with his wife's chemotherapy you ponderous posing hirsute douchebag)

@fjblau - 

"ponderous posing hirsute douchebag"

Wow "douchebag"...

I guess you were refering to me since I was the one
who made the comment on your shaved head. I shave my head because it's
the cool thing to do now-a-days, and I too when through ,chemotherapy, radiation therapy,
immunotherapy, and vaccine therapy...

I have Soft Tissue Sarcoma.

I did'nt mean to offend you and actually was rooting for you.

I'm sorry about your wife's condition and I hope she is better know.
How can anyone tell why you have a BALD head if you don't give a story.

Sincerly...

Serge, douchebag.

*NOW...

@fjblau - 

From your posts, I would think that the Democrats would be far too conservative for you.

"From your posts, I would think that the Democrats would be far too conservative for you."

many are... :)

but on balance... they do better for me.

Hey Serge... Mea Culpa... you're right... I should be a little less sensitive. :) Sorry to hear about your Sarcoma too... that really sucks.

My first response when I read Gary's comment about golf was "How smug and condescending!" It is sometimes comical, and at-the-same-time sad, when people resort to personal, demeaning attacks. I hope that you don't have people judge you that way, Gary. With today's "shark-in-the-water" mentality, it is a wonder that anyone would want to be President. It is easy to sling all kinds of accusations about motives, and wrong-doing when you have the media constantly from day one suspecting, bashing, and sowing mistrust into the population. And then they gleefully report the latest poll of the "public opinion". If I believed Gary's characterization (amongst others on this blog)of President Bush, then my opinion also would be infected and affected. I, for one, am glad that another Bush became President, and the US can thank God that it was not Al Gore having to make decisions about Iraq. I just hope there is another Bush that is willing to serve this country as president.