ur such a self righteous f in hypocrite...  thats the most honest answer ur gonna get today

I got turned off going to catholic church, because the priest collected money for the "privilege" of sitting in a pew. Then, he would pass the basket. Then, his sermon would only be about giving more money in a white envelope in front of us. After a few weeks of this, I stopped going to that church. That's when I was in an Anglican boarding school, and catholics were allowed to go to the village catholic church on Sundays.

I don't believe in the 10-fold return, nor do I believe that I was giving to God or even the poor. I'm sure that most of the money went to pay for the ridiculous upkeep of oversized, and overdecorated churches, while the poor got very little if nothing at all. This collection scam has only made those who collected very rich. The Vatican is a perfect example.

As far as giving to charities, you really have to investigate what percentage really goes to the intended beneficiary. Since many charities are not transparent or obligated to report earnings and expenses, it's an iffy proposition. Sometimes, proceeds from one major charity organization are given to other smaller charities, making it even harder to know how the funds were used. How many times do we hear that food never made it. However, it seems that Bibles always make it, and there always plenty of money for missionaries to bring the word of God to the needy. Now, if you could only eat paper. Maybe they should make Bibles in edible paper. This way, push come to shove, people could literally eat the words of God, and survive a few more days...:)

If you are commenting on groups, in general, that strongly preach giving to them, then the answer is to ignore them. You can always find a black sheep in any family. If you are commenting on the particular group you are attending, then you have to take the good with the bad.

Most churches I have attended avoid the topic. Once a year, they may preach a tithing sermon just to make sure everyone understands the general issue. There is more than one tithe in the old testament, and if you followed them all, you would end up tithing about 1/3.

IMHO: Tithing is a guideline. The more you have, the more you can afford to share. I also don't think you have to give all your tithe to one place. I think your local church should get the bulk, with a smaller portion going to other charities of your choice.

Whether you want to keep it anonymous or not is your choice. But, if you are giving to get recognition, then "you have received your reward".

If preached right, tithing is more an attitude than an act.

BTW: I don't believe in the "prosperity gospel" - get 10 times in return. However, I do believe that if you tithe for the right reasons, that God will honor that and make sure you have your needs met.

I also don't believe in a prosperity gospel, it is the attitude of the giving.  The old testament really teaches tithing is 10%.  The meaning of the word tithe is that.  But in the new testament Jesus stresses to give as God has prospered you.  But one old lady gave ALL she had..that is not a requirement It was a demonstration of her greatfulness to God and her love to him to give all she had.  The minister does benefit, so does the building.  When you tithe it goes to the pastor's salary, paying the electric bills, gas, etc.  It is all about attitude..I agree with iskot wholeheartedly.

Gary, that was the best post you've done.....thanks.....well, maybe the one on folding tee shirts was better, but this one hit the spot. There are a lot of people telling you you have to tithe because they are the recipient of your money. And, "you can't out give God"?, I see a lot of people who are giving their 10% to some church and the only one driving around in a BMW is the pastor.....well done, Gary.....

Tithing is just another social contract (like taxes). You choose your supernatural theology... and then you agree to pony up to maintain the infrastructure that it requires (robes, garments, wine, nubile altar boys) in exchange for the promise of eternal life (and those yummy donuts after the service).

The model has been around forever...

Being decidedly secular, I wholeheartedly support the concept in my government... but remain truly mystified (no pun intended) at the process when applied to the supernatural.

@iakot - 

i tend to agree with most of these statements. i believe in the 10% rule.

Hey Gary,

I usually avoid commenting on your religious posts, but here ya go.

First let me say this.... there are some religious groups that twist people's arms into giving. Not only is it wrong, it misses the fundamental point about tithing. So, just understand that my post doesn't reflect about them. I've personally been blessed to never go to a church where I've felt a bad vibe about tithing. At the church where I grew up in, EVERY Sunday when the basket was passed around, the pastor would say "This portion is for the service who call this church their home. If you're visiting with us, we really don't want you to participate, please just enjoy the service and let the basket pass you by."

Ok, so here are my thoughts.

I think your attitude about tithing is backwards, but you hold a fairly common view. I'm Eastern Orthodox and so our views on things like this are sometimes a little different from our Catholic or Protestant friends.

For us, I don't think tithing is as much a responsibility as it is a spiritual discipline. God doesn't need our money. Surely, the awesome being who created the heavens, divided the Red Sea, fed the 5,000 from a few loaves of bread and fish, and rose from the dead on the third day doesn't need my 10%. Not even a little bit. Tithing is done for our own sake as much as, if not more than, for the sake of the Church.

The spiritual disciplines are meant at their core to make us better people. It's like training. Take fasting.... Fasting is not refraining from food just for food's sake. It actually has very little to do with food. It's teaching us how to be content. At some point along the journey of fasting, you learn that in a world that teaches you that you can't survive without "stuff", you can survive and still be hungry. As you progress, you realize hey you know what, I can be hungry and still be joyful. Even though the world says I can't possibly be happy without a new car, a better house, a Canon Mark III, better clothes, etc etc etc, fasting teaches us that our joy is not found in "stuff", but in God.

Same type of thing with tithing. We believe that nothing that we posses is really ours in the first place. Everything is given to us by God. However, as fallen people we forget that, and we cling to our "stuff". OUR money, OUR car, OUR land, OUR "things". Just in the way that fasting teaches us that we can be happy and joyful without having our desires filled (such as the desire to eat), tithing teaches us that none of our stuff is really ours and to let it go. The more that we let it go, the more free we are from it. There's an overwhelming freedom from having things, but not clinging to them, and realizing that it's all a gift, and that eventually when you die, all you stuff goes to someone else anyways. An author and pastor John Ortberg makes a fantastic analogy to our life as being like the game Monopoly. You can have fun playing the game, you can build your houses and hotels, and maybe eventually become the "master of the board", but you must realize that when the game ends and it always ends, that everything goes "back in the box." None of it was ever really yours, you just used it for a little while and now someone else will use it. Tithing reminds us of this, and keeps us from clinging to our stuff.

One of my spiritual heros is a 19th century Russian priest by the name of St. John of Kronstadt. He was known for many things, but one of them was that he would always come home barefoot because he would see someone on the streets without shoes and give his away. His wife (Orthodox priests can marry) would buy him another pair and within a week or two he would give that pair away the next time he saw someone without a pair. Further, his Archdiocese actually got mad at him because he would give away so much of his paycheck to the poor. I think they actually started giving it to his wife instead after a while! Most of all though, St. John was known for his overwhelming joy throughout his life. He was a man overflowing with love. I think when he let go of his "stuff", he was able to open his hands to others and because of it, he became a better person. That's what tithing teaches us to do.

Ok.... sermon's over! :) LOL! Just my 2 cents :)

an after thought....those 'holier than thou' folks who like to quote the bible might want to open it up sometime and actually read it.....if you really want to follow the bible, you should be 'tithing' 20% every year and 30% every 7th year (for the poor amongst you. I don't see many "Christians" doing that).....it's funny how people can pick and choose what portion of a bible book, chapter or verse they want, to 'prove' their point or base a religion on. No wonder this world is so f***** up.........just my 'tithe's worth.

"ur such a self righteous f in hypocrite... thats the most honest answer ur gonna get today"

Can you say sensitive F.A.N.A.T.I.C.

Hey Gary, I got the job! I am a substitute librarian! It is perfect for my situation, on call; only when I want, out of the house! Yea!

Tithing is my way of giving back to God 10% of my increase. God has given me everything I have, so 10% is basically symbolic, showing my obedience. He promises that when I pay tithing, He will "open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." (Malachi 3:10, Old Testament, although Nephi paid tithing too!)

Sparing 10% precisely and regularly helps keep material things in perspective and make budgeting more of a habit.

Tithing 20%, and 30% every 7th year was under Mosaic law, preparing for the coming of Christ. After he was born, His law replace Mosaic law. Love thy neighbor, and yes you can walk on the grass on Sunday, or Saturday or whenever your Sabbath is.

You proved my point...interesting that when Jesus came, he wiped out all the 'laws' and 'rules' that people don't like.....and, what's really cool, you get to decide which ones to keep and which ones to toss because Jesus was nice enough to not even mention them.....other than "I've come not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law", whatever that means. (Bacon tastes so good, that he wiped out all the dietary laws.)

lol. exactly jim. i eat bacon because it tastes good. i knew someone was going to call me out one day. crap.

i also tithe because it tastes like bacon...now what?

The Flying Spaghetti Monster requires no tithing. :)

I'm not a church go'er at all, never have been as I don't believe I need organized religion. People who believe in it or need it, so be it and should tithe somewhat to the organization that gives them hope and solace. It is a service after all and we should gladly pay, in whatever way we can, for services.

I am, however, spiritual and believe in the abundance of the universe and that it gives to givers. I demand from it what I need and thank it for what it provides. I am not going to give to a church that I don't attend to satisfy a tithing requirment, but I would give to its and other charities that help other people because I can and want to.

Ten percent sounds like a good round amount to me, if you can afford it; at this time, I cannot. However, I do give what and when I can. I always thought to myself though, that if I ever won a huge lottery, made a butt-load of money, or struck it rich on MegaBucks, I would first tally up my life's earnings and earmark that 10% right away for whatever charity or organizations I felt to give to. But it's my choice of where and how much to give. Organized religion and more specifically, its vehicles of the word, that expect you to give 10% no matter what your situation is, is just criminal. Whatever you can give, give some to the suppliers of your spirituality for services rendered to maintain your sanity and give more to help your fellow man. Next time that plate comes around, just drop a note in and tell them God has accepted the use of your money elsewhere.

JimReed..that is famous for pulling verses out of context...You are reading the old testament jewish tradition.  Just because you give money don't mean you get money back..there are many things to reap good of.  If you read the other comments, they are properly referring to the 10% part..you are way off base. Since my wife no longer works I can no longer afford the 10% but I give what I can and with a cheerful heart.  If the church misuses it then God's judgement is on them, I'm not holy enough to do that.  But if I see and know about it then I will bring it up in the business meeting and if it isn't resolved then, I will tithe somewhere else but I'm not going to stop tithing because of it, there are other churches that can be helped.

Here is a video germane to the subject http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6_3Va-X1pk

The New Testament (gospels or epistles) do not specify a percentage to give to the church. But it does say: you should never give reluctantly or under compulsion, and that money should be set aside to support the church.

I think its important to make the distinction between tithing and giving to other charities. The purpose of tithing (IMO) is to support the church and also be an act of worship. I think that's different than giving to a charity like Red Cross, United Way, etc. I think giving to these charities is great as long as you perform proper due diligence–its just different than tithing.

Remember that the first people in the Bible to bring an offering (tithe or firstfruits, if you will) were Cain and Able–and that was long before the Mosaic law.

I was really turned off by the church of Man when some very Christian friends invited me to a Billy Graham revival at Anaheim Stadium. At the end of the event, when everyone was hypnotized and "feeling" the lord inside them, Billy said those magic words "Now reach down into your bags and purses and pull out that check book....". From then on I started attending the church of God and not the church of Man. That was only one example of many I had witnessed prior to that. That same example spanned across denominations, churches, and faiths. I used to think of tithing and donations to the church (or government, or community, or cause) as worthy until I saw the evidence of fiduciary irresponsibility by those that I had given to.

I now give when I can, directly to those in need, not because I'm being pressured or coerced into it, but because I connect with that person on some deeper level and if I feel that I can truly be of service in reducing their suffering even just a little bit. Also I would rather give my time, services, food, clothing, etc. instead of cash because there is less of a temptation by the receiver to use the money unwisely.

Oh and another thing that is not church related but charity related. In the past I've given to a few charities that totally turned me off when they started flooding me with junk mail asking for more. I figured that since they spent all of the donation money I gave on subsequent printing and postage to ask for more, none of it went to the actual cause. That is a big no-no in my book and they will never receive another dime from me.

GQ

The word "tithe" means 10..just like the latin word for rapture means "caught up"...I doubt very seriously if Billy Graham ever said that.  I have been going to his crusades for over a decade and not ONCE did they ever bring up the money issue nor did they ever send anyone in with bags...the offering bags (of course there were bags, more than 10,000 to give..were at each entry into the main stadium with people there to make sure you didn't take anything out.  Plus in his later years he said he had to re-do a lot of things in his ministry..when you were in Anahiem was it when TV was black and white?

Ahhh...interesting topic. 

I can't speak for everyone, just my own personal experiences, beliefs and observations.  Let me first say that tithing should be a very personal thing.  It should be between you and your God.  Not something you do expecting, not something you feel burdened to do.  While I do feel it is owed to God, as a way of saying this is yours, thank you for allowing me to have this.  I do not feel you should be pressured to give.  With that, I personally do not beleive that you have to give all your tithe to your home church.  Like I said, that is a personal decision.  I do feel you have to tithe however.  That is a personal religous belief.  But, keep it personal.  Again, don't do it hastingly feeling like you have to or expecting something. 

I agree with Gary on the Tithing...
Example... I shoot a lot of weddings at a local church... The Church itself, land, building and school are owned by the "Priest" of the church. I recently shot a wedding reception at the Bishops house, He lived in a gated community here is The OC, his house was about 4000 square feet on a little more than an acre of land... If any one is familiar with the prices down here, you know it is a multi million dollar spread... makes you wonder where that money goes every Sunday... Any ways needless to say I have transfered my children out of there preschool to one not owned by a church... Just my two cents worth... PEACE

As for Billy Graham saying it...Well I was there and he did say it. My wife and I looked at each other and even discussed it afterwards how disappointed we were.

GQ

Gary, how strange that you have brought this up right now. The church I go to in North Atlanta, 12 Stone Church, just had a message about tithing yesterday. It is the best explanation I have ever heard on the subject and I consider myself pretty sensitive when dealing with tithing. I feel some churches scare the crap out of people when they talk about it. Here is a link to listen to the message, it is under the heading of "Money, Classic Values". There were a few visuals so I hope the message is understandable without them.