Jim Nachtwey is obsolete, I guess. Now with digital and shutter-happy morons, we take our own pictures of our own in-humanity.

And sad to say, but 15 Iraqi victims isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the real slaughter that goes on. This country has murdered tens/hundreds of thousands of innocent, both abroad and at home.

But I try not to get political on my photo blog. In fact I hardly hold a political oinion at all, becuase it's just not worth my time and effort. I lament those who die, I vote for the least evil politicians, and I put my money where my mouth is. That's all I can do.

-Matt-

yeah i agree

But gentlemen.........the problem is letting every Tom, Dick, and illegal Harry into this country.........because as I see what's happening, we're quickly becoming a two class American society. I'm one of the ones that's being squeezed out, because the middle income people pay for all the social give aways. Most small businesses pay for it all, so if we can't change the politicians, we'd better figure out how to get rich, because it's way too easy to give up and become some of the 'new poor' in this country!

Pep,

Question - how the heck does you getting squeezed out of the middle class equate to Marines shooting civilians in another country?  Because they're "for'ners?"  SHOOT THE FOR'NERS before they TEK OUR JERBS!

Seriously - I don't see the connection but .. anyhoo.

Gary,

It's unfortunate that these Marines would take revenge like this.  I don't believe it was part of their orders to go shoot up the town though.  I don't believe any part of our 'mission' was to shoot 3 year olds.  I find that despicable.  However, and there IS a however, if you think Saddam was responsible for less reprehensible acts to innocents...........well........ we disagree then.

M

As a canadian"outsider", I've learned long ago never to draw conclusions on information that comes through the media, especially in the US (Canada is slowly becoming that way, too). When you take sides, also, there is a process by which the brain censors anything that does not agree with personal deep-seated beliefs and values. Not only you cannot you see it, you could NOT WANT to see it. People can justify anything. OK, no weapons of mass desctruction in Irak, BUT....(add your own justification).

Funny that it is the US that used the most weapons of mass destruction in the past 60 years. Don't do unto us as we do unto you. Well, when you're the strongest militarily, why not. Might as well use scare tactics on them, also, so that they keep their place. However, when you're dealing with people WHO WANT TO DIE to go to their heaven, scare tactics don't work too good. Iran should become interesting soon. Start stocking up on aluminum umbrellas, and plastic suits and boots.

Yeah, Sadam was a bad guy - he gased a whole bunch of people and kept a reign of terror in his country, and controlled it. He thought he owned Kuwait, but no, it was Exxon who owned it with their Saudi friends. Who supplied the gas, and the weapons is something conveniently "forgotten". Irak is in chaos right now, and there is no sign that the politicians in place can resort to democracy to rally the country. Is is possible that certain countries cannot function by democracy? Can you impose democracy? First of all, does OUR OWN democracy still function the way it was intended to? Not sure.

There is usually more than meets the eye in foreign policy. You can almost bet that we are sometimes fed information to make us love the right, the left, the middle, Michael Moore, the Da Vinci Code for different reasons at different times. While we complain, discuss, and get all worked up about what they allow the media to report, it keeps us from seeing the real issues - just like seeing an iceberg float out of the water. It's much bigger below.

My response was to the evil politicians comment.

Actually, I've never been to or in a war, and I never will. Killing of innocent civilians is NEVER a good thing, but it amazes me, that it seems like WWII (for the USA) would never have gotten started if Pearl Harbor hadn't been attacked. Today, the US is looked upon so unfavorably because there's so many ding dongs in this country that say it's bad (the US). Our country was based upon freedom. We still have more of that than Canada, Europe, or any of the so-called 'free' countries in this world.

With this 'freedom' comes the ability to let the 'minority' rule and the majority doesn't matter or the politicians only care about getting re-elected. The liberal factions in this country are doing to the bill of rights what the 'radical' religious groups have done to the Bible over the millenia. They 'interpret' it to fit their needs and screw the needs of the majority. Our laws seem to be interpreted by the emotions of the minority rather than the truth of the law as it was meant to be by our founding fathers! Do you think they had the 'right to bear arms' to include every type of weapon that would be made during the next few hundred years to include AK-47's? Would George Washington fight for the rights of a few to own these mass killing weapons? Was that the intent? I don't think so. That's just one example.

Back to the original intent of Gary's message, all we know is what we have heard. We weren't there seeing what happened at My Lai, but a whole lot of people have now determined that we, the US, was to blame.

What about us going to Iraq. Should we have let Saddam continue to kill his people? This question is regardless whether or not weapons of mass destruction were found! What would have happened if we just sat idly by and didn't help these people. I bet we probably shouldn't have gotten involved with WWII because Hitler didn't have any weapons of mass destruction......Same reasoning.

If we hadn't gotten involved with Hitler, the Germans would have beat us to the punch for the atom bomb and we probably wouldn't exist now, or we'd be speaking German and the western US would be speaking Japanese.....no, probably Spanish AND Japanese. (I lived in LA for almost 30 yrs. and I saw first hand how the San Fernando Valley went from a middle-middle to middle-upper income area in the mid-70's to how it is now, a lower-upper to lower-middle income area. This is mainly due to illegal aliens. Sure, let them all in. They know they'll get better treatment and free benefits just by popping out a kid that's born in the US!!!! Funny how so many millions of immigrants that made this country what it is was done by poor Irish, English, German, etc. LEGAL immigrants over the last couple of hundred years. Why do the Mexicans think they're entitled?????) Now I'm living back in Iowa, the state I was born, and when I walk into Wal-Mart, it's just like walking into a Wal-Mart in Bakersfield or Los Angeles, California.

Any war isn't a perfectly defined entity that is a nice neat and clean thing. You take 20 year old boys and put them in a strange country with guns and the fact that they know they have a good chance of being blown up, I bet it would be easy to get a little trigger happy. AGAIN, this doesn't and shouldn't give them carte blanche to kill, but it will and it has happened.

These people in strange countries look like you and me there's no mark on their forehead to distinguish the radicals from the 'normal' people. These idiots are willing to send their children and wives out to kill the infidels of the US. How are we to react? Wait until they blow us up? Heck, by the time you figure it out, they're already in pieces, so are you, so who does your perfectly level headed friends behind your body pieces know to kill? In WWII it was spies and snipers that slowly picked off American boys. They hadn't yet figured out you can kill a whole lot more with bombs and even more if you strap a few pounds of C4 to your body and walk as 'citizens' among the unknowing Americans.

I know if my son decides to go and become a soldier, I'm going to be scared to death, because he'll never be able to defend himself against the 'civilian' idiots.....or I should say the civilian holy fighters as they don't give a damn about their or anyone elses life. If some innocent people get killed, due to mental and emotional pounding our soldiers are constantly put in front of.....well, those 'innocent' civilians should make sure that their country's leaders get quality leadership and harshly deal with the radical Jihad factions.

Tell a grieving parent that if their dead son had shot and killed the young girl before he questioned her about if she had bombs wrapped around her, he would still be alive.

Now this will probably get deleted by Gary and I just wasted 15 minutes of my life, but I feel strongly about how wimpy the US citizenry has gotten about our involvement in Iraq. Yes, I want us to get out, but I don't want my life in this country to be jeopardized by a bunch of radical religious extremists half way around the world.

I don't think we should hide what those people have done to us, any more than we should hide how we go in and eliminate those that did or possibly could kill our sons and daughters.

War is a filthy scourge on the face of this planet, but there's no way to get rid of it until the day of judgement.

More freedom in the US than in Canada, and European countries? Interesting belief. It's easier to circulate between European countries than it is across the US/Canada border. The Euro is worth more than the US dollar. Canadian dollar gained ground. Now, I wonder why that is....

No, we did not allow Saddam to continue killing his people with the weapons we had supplied him against Iran. We took that job from him. We destroyed his cities real good so that we could snap our suspenders as being the proud heroes of "reconstruction". Real numbers are not really published, so we're not really sure if we beat his numbers yet with all those bombings during the Kuwait war, at the start of the war in Irak, and now everyday, because of our occupation. Now, of course, we can't call the factions who were giving problems to Saddam "terrorists", because only the US, and coalition forces can use that label. Ethnic cleansing sounds better when other people deal with that kind of problem. Of course, there are instances of real ethnic cleansings, but the US and coalition forces do not get involved too much with those cases(example Africa). Unfortunately, there's no ROI to be had in most African countries. Oil rich countries, yes. They can pay for reconstruction. Who got the big reconstruction contracts? Who repaired blown-out oil fields? Who supplied the materials? Well, it ain't the local hardware store in Burlington, Vermont.

For Vietnam, we got some figures for US soldier casualties, but do we know how many innocent Vietnamese people were napalmed and blown up? How much "collateral" damage? No matter who did the Mi Lai massacre. Why did Mi Lai occur in the first place? US occupation. Boy, we were so scared that the communists would take South Vietnam, that americans could not sleep at night. Commies were everywhere, ready to pounce on us at every turn. Man, we could have been invaded by millions of Sampangs, and North America would have been furrowed by thousands of underground tunnels and bunkers if we had not gone over there and stopped them in their tracks.

Now, the commies have been replaced by armies of bomb-laden fndamentalist men, women, and child. I can imagine ships, and planes full of human bombs landing in North America ready to blow themselves up in Wal-Marts, MacDonalds, and Disney World. Good thing we acted quickly and sent soldiers so that THEY can be blown up, instead of us. Why take a chance? Yeah, why get jeapordized half way around the world by a bunch of radical religious extremists in long robes. Kill them on the spot and get it over with, before they kill our sons and daughters. We, of course, are making their job easier for that. We provide them with our sons and daughters on the spot. They don't even have to travel to blow them up. They just have to wait aroung their own corners for them to go by.

Walk among "unknowing americans"? Where? Here? When? Apart from the towers (twice), the other big terrorist attack was done by an American in Oklahoma City. Now, if there are "unknowing" Americans OVER THERE, they are not attending the proper briefing meetings.

We should learn history's lessons. But, we don't. See, we let communist China evolve naturally, and now it's starting to beat us at our own materialistic game. Now, that's more of a threat for your lifestyle than a body bomb, terrorist attacks, and Mexican invasion!

Funny reasoning you use with WWII and Hitler. I guess we should go to war with anybody just in case they COULD eventually have weapons of mass destruction. Yeah, pre-emptive strike. You NEVER know.

How long would you take to react if a big Mexican family or other ethnic group settled in your backyard, and did not seem to want to go away, no matter how nice you were in asking. What about if they connected to your electricity, and water supply, and went inside to use your facilities, took some food out of your fridge, watched your TV, used your computer, your cameras, without really asking permission. What about if the local police did not do anything to move them? Nor your government, imposed by some alien force? How long would it take to take matters in your own hands out of desperation. Would you mind if a neighbor decided to go blow himself up in your backyard to get rid of the occupants for you? Would you consider him a civilian idiot or a hero?

Saddam had some control over the radical Jihad factions. He did what was necessary, as we are trying to do what is necessary, now in our own way. But being more "civilized" than Saddam, it's not working too well, is it?

US citizens are not going wimpy. It's just that facts are starting to seep through the censorship imposed by the military on journalists and the Press. People are talking about their experience, more and more. Wondering if it's all worth it. How long will it take the Talibans to take over Afghanistan, once again? How long will it take the fundamentalist religious groups to take over an Irak that is more than ready for the Jihad against the infidels? Do you think that they are more pissed off against us than before?

But, you know what they say: politics, religion, and sex. Don't get started. Back to photography...:)

What did I start?

Gosh Richard, you should move down here, get US citizenship and run for president......We Americans need another Bill Clinton.

Also, I think you should become Ghandi II. Pacificism is the calm way. I wonder if Ghandi would stand a chance in todays world.

Amazing how easy it is to talk about our opinions, but one question........do any of us try to do anything about it? Ok, we'll spout on Gary's blog, but all that does is get a bunch of us riled up. Up there in Canada, let's see how many Mexicans (and American's for that matter) come into the country illegally. How many millions of immigrants does Canada allow?

My best friend lives in Australia and the only reason he's been there over 20 yrs. is because he was hired away by an Australian company 25 yrs. ago. To get him into the country legally, they (the Australian company) had to write a job description so specific, that there wasn't ONE Australian that could fill the position. Here, all you've got to do is do the work for less than anyone else will. Alot of American companys don't care if they hire Mexicans, Chinese or whoever......just as long as they're cheap labor.

BTW, in Canada, I hear the government run health care system sucks! You can't get 'elective' surgery for months. I have a CA friend that used to live in Canada and she says an old boyfriend lost his sight in one eye because he couldn't get the surgery done immediately. Ahhhhh yes. socialized medicine. Also, how many Canadians come across the border into America to have procedures done? I bet lots.......

Also Richard, you've got some terrific rhetoric and sound like you'd make a great orator. Problem is, if your opinion is so good, why don't you take action? I've learned in life don't go by what someone says, go on what they do. I'm no better than you, because my opinion doesn't mean anything because I don't want to get into politics.

So I guess spouting on Gary's site is just that.....rhetoric, spouting, opinions, and no real action.

The only people that have the power in the world are the rich. How many uneducated poor presidents have there been in civilization? Name one American or Canadian prime minister that was poor. People talk about the republicans as rich business people, but look at Bill Clinton and his 'royal entourage' he had going on in the white house.

The scary thing is Hilary Clinton is being preened to be the first US president and God help the USA if that liberal whacko gets in. You want to see out of control spending, free social programs and a woman that is a witch with a 'b'?

Come on down here to the states and clean up our act. Nobody's been able to do it since Washington..........

One other thing Richard......What does the word 'allies' mean to you? Is it a country that we help when they ask, or do we stand by them only when it benefits us? As an ally to foreign countries, do we act as big brother, or do we lecture them? Vietnam was a mistake, but it's really easy now to be a Monday quarterback.

We could look at any war in any period of history and have the answer now on how to have prevented it. With technology, computers and people mass reproducing, our world will never be the same. If anyone believes that, go find a mountain in the himalayas and sit up there and don't say a word.......just mediatate and imagine how it should be.

it is amazing to me how polar these opinions are, and well researched with filters. All I'm saying is that I've seen this all before, it is almost exactly as it was 36 years ago with different vocabulary (guerillas became insurgents).

All this crazy stuff is just that. There aren't enough people willing to go out and run for office to try and change anything and then once elected, it's whoever wants the favors, are the ones that gets the benefits.

The war stuff isn't good however you look at it.

War should be determined by putting the leaders of the various warring factions on an island with some guns and ammunitions and let them fight. That way only a few will get killed.

Gary, you're going to have to quit putting such controversial stuff in your posts! LOL

Naaaaah, photography gets boring sometime.

BTW, did you get my private e-mail? I had a couple of questions............thanks

War sucks but the world is better off without Saddam no matter how you cut it with WMD or not. 

Tough times, (911 tough time too) "War is hell"...Patton 1942

This war on terror that started back on 911 was going to bring all this, (My Lai) and more...WE KNEW THAT, (Argue that one anyone!!) The American Military...ouch !

Let's all do what we all here in this country do best, tune out and consume fuel.... That should get us back to normal. So go on, get in your Land Rover, tune in the FM dial, crank the AC, and pimp out, just don't mention the lives sacraficed these last few years cuz that will really be a turn off dawg!! Reality. Cuz thats how we roll in this country of ours. pathetically enough.

Sorry folks, but I can't find a PDF on how to filter lifes information

Gary,

Cant we all just get along?!!!!

Randy

For starters, this incident was no My Lai.  People that are making that comparison must not really know much about either.  Our convoys are hit most every day and have been for the last two years.  Literally hundreds of thousands of US soldiers have had the opportunity to take it out on the local civilians but they have not.  This action, if the case bears out, was the action of no more than 4-5 people.  Some people very much want to paint this inicident as a defining action of this conflict, it is not. 

It is quite easy to say we shouldn't have gone into Iraq but I don't see many people offering alternatives.  I think many people have forgotten that one of the reasons the 9/11 hijackers were involved was because we had troops in Saudi Arabia.  And why did we have troops in Saudi?  Because of Saddam and his threat to Kuwait and the region.  A very real threat.  Maintaining troops in Saudi (there were strategic reasons for basing there instead of Kuwait until we had a large force to secure the supply line through the port of Kuwait) for the long term was not an option.  What would you have done?  Pulled out and let Saddam have his way.  Some people seem to be dismissive of the people in Kuwait as if they didn't matter, as if Saddam would just make them a part of his big happy family. 

The Western world has been glad for the US to be the torch bearer.  Their left leaning civilians love to take punches at us for dropping bombs but their governments love us for taking care of messes so they don't have to spend the blood and money to do it themselves.  You can bet that the Europeans were happy to let the US lead the way in trying to straighten out the Balkans.  Ask yourself how that situation would be today if the US hadn't gotten involved. 

Everyone should read Michael Moore's "Dude Where's My Country"

Saddam may well have flown WMD's into Syria, he hid his air force in Syria during Gulf War I. He also liked to make people think he had WMD's, just like Iran does now. Its a matter of hide and seek more with Iran now than it was with Saddam, who was/is not even in the same ballpark in the cleverness department as is Iran's leadership. Lots of scenarios here, everybody has a theory.

Diplomats and world leaders say different things to reporters compared to what they say to each other over cocktails. The betrayal of American troops via NATO and American spy John Walker during the Vietnam War is a major horror story; and the murder of thousands of South Vietnamese civilians by North Vietnamese forces during the Tet Offensive 1968 remains conveniently ignored. Neither of these two issues has been a lightning rod to penetrate American political consciousness.

Read a book titled Stolen Valor, by B.G.Burkett & Glenna Whitley (ISBN 096670360-X) for perspective on how wars are fought vs. the way wars are portrayed.

Actually I chuckled at Wikipedia's My Lai entry: "Soldiers were evaluated based on their "body count" - the number of presumed NLF operatives killed. Soldiers were encouraged by higher command to exaggerate body counts in order to give the impression of military success."

Its on the internet, must be true. If its not true, its too good to not be true, so we'll hold that thought until forced to do otherwise. Golly the secret's out, all of us three million plus Vietnam era service people knew the secret handshake, oops they deprogrammed us with PTSD upon being discharged. Darn.

I am a Vietnam Veteran (1967-1968), US Army Medical Corps, 1966-69, served six months each as an infantry field medic then as a Dust-Off medical helicopter volunteer.

You do not carry out illegal orders. The officers who issue illegal orders or who implement illegal behavior cannot hide forever, as they have hundreds of troops to testify against them.

All this latest stuff seems familiar. The presentation tactics by all parties have not changed. History will record for us, as we cannot be there to object.

Ed

You are right, the slaughter of innocents is disgusting. Especially children.

I don't blame all Americans though for a few murderers.

Not wanting to make light of what is going on in Iraq and those who are dieing and losing loved ones now, i do believe that it is the lesser of two evils. Saddam was killing 70,000 of his own people a year so even at that rate the current situation is not as bad as it was.

You may remember the WMD's were being investigated by the Iraqi Arms inspection group who though they did not find weapons of mass destruction still concluded that it was Saddams intent to embark on a program to them once the U.N had backed off.

I'm not sure about the U.S but in Australia Michael Moore is no longer considered a reliable source due to him being found out to be fabricating his information so often. (i'm sure there would be exceptions to that).

I do lose sleep over those who are suffering over there though and pray it will come to an end soon, and that justice will come to those who slaughtered civilians.

Who's Michael Moore?

Oh yeah.............the big fat idiot that gets rich from his fabrications.........that's right! Hollywood types think they know more than any of the politicians in Washington (Good OR bad politicians)

I lived in S. CA. for 28 yrs. and celebrities are no better than you or me.......they just look better and make more money...

(BTW.....the previous post was in jest. Everybody knows that scumbag MM)

Isn't it fun to hate on America / Americans?  Certainly has been profitable for Michael ("mo' money") Moore.  Gotta love how he ha$ worked a deal where he make$ money off the $ale of the new Dixie Chick$ CD....

http://moorewatch.com/index.php

Gary, this occurence is still under investigation. I suggest holding off blasting these guys until a verdict is rendered and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they did indeed do what you claim, then, yeah, that's sick and wrong and I seriously doubt those in charge will tolerate them.

Thanks for reminding me... I want to get Dixie Chicks new cd!!!

I want to get the new Dixie Chicks CD, too. Oh and I can't forget Fahrenheit 911, Roger & Me, and the Hillary and Bill Clinton Books. LOL!!